the world cup of japanese artists in our country, which will be held in september, is being held. mehdi ziaei , iranian broadcasting corporation , thank you for your support, dear viewers . today is tuesday, the 13th of khordad, the 7th month of dhul-hijjah, the 3rd of june. i would like to inform you that in tehran , sunset will be at 1916 minutes, from that time, sunset will be at 1937 minutes, and midnight tonight will be at 11:10 minutes. thank you very much for joining us. i invite you to see the economy desk . please come with my colleague, mr. seifi. hello , thank you, ms. khalji, and greetings and good time to you , dear viewers. welcome to the economy desk program. today, if you are interested in today's discussion about the country's energy governance , join us on the news network.

hello and greetings again to you , dear viewers. as you were informed in the headlines of the 14th news section, today on the economy desk program , we intend to discuss a vital issue in the field of the country's energy governance with our guests. let's discuss and debate the first sephatan and sipat systems , which aim to make the country transparent. let's discuss and debate the first sephatan and sipat systems, which aim to make the country transparent. let's discuss and debate the first sakhtan and sipad systems, which aim to make the country transparent. hidden energy subsidies that consume more than 3500 trillion tomans of the country's resources annually and articles 4 and 6.

the seventh progress program that promised to create smart energy governance, unfortunately, after months of seeing these programs, there is still no tangible output from these systems, and everyone has this question: is n't it time to update our country's energy management by establishing precise institutions ? we intend to discuss the issues i mentioned with the guests in the studio at the service of mr. dr. mehdi hassan band, a respected expert in energy economics, as well as mr. abuzar yousefi, the respected head of customer relations for the smart fuel system, and other guests will join us in person, online, and by phone. mr. hassan went, greetings, respect, and welcome back to your service. thank you for the time you have given me. and

greetings to the dear viewers. greetings to you, mr. yousefi. you are very welcome . greetings, in the name of allah, the most gracious, the most merciful . greetings to you, a capable presenter . and also greetings to all our dear compatriots who have our voice and image and follow and monitor this program. greetings. let's start with you, mr. yousefi . currently, we are reviewing the reports, news, and messages from our compatriots in the field of energy. many of them are complaining about the lack of coordination between fuel cards and actual consumption . considering your position, your excellency , does your system have a response to this criticism or have you made any specific corrections or actions in this regard ? yes , first of all, it is appropriate for me

to explain the process that actually takes place until a smart fuel card related to the fleet actually reaches a charging stage and the fleet owner or operator can use it. i want transparency to be created so that the compatriots know what is happening. in the oil sector, the oil and gas- burning fleet, which we are actually allocating quotas to, happens based on a process that exists between stakeholders and trustees to gather information and the desired performance of the fleets . based on that statement, verification occurs after verification and is sent to the national iranian oil distribution and processing company, and we recharge the fleet's fuel smart card . this process happens in the inner and outer city areas, meaning there are two main trustees, one in the outer city area and the other in the inner city area. the outer area the city, whose main custodian is the road and transportation organization, yes.

within the city, the municipality and the village organizations, these two main custodians, based on specific time intervals and specific periods that were agreed upon in the working group. we have reached the point where they collect fleet information and based on that information , they announce it to the national iranian petroleum products distribution company in specific time periods, and the national petroleum distribution company, as the sole depositor of the declared performance in the fleet fuel profile and smart card, performs this action based on a specific time period . yes, now you can tell how much. both the sepht and sipat systems are now connected to fuel stations . yes , look at how many percent of them are connected now . the cabinet resolution of 2014 , the resolution of 2014

, and the seventh development plan law were laws that came in line with the survey plan to make this plan clearer and that something is going to happen to the fleet based on performance, performance that was actually announced in 2014 based on shipping documents and gps, meaning that these two must be together to achieve performance. since 2014, it has been a task that two trustees had to perform. despite the fact that they were conducting performance statistics based on shipping documents , they were equipping the fleet with gps. now, friends. friends, in 2019 , the economic council had issued a resolution for the road administration organization in the suburban area , which had to implement the gps system that was designed in the suburban area, called the sepahtan system. yes, initially, the equipment

and system had to be designed and equipped on the fleet , and based on that data that was extracted, it was sent to the national broadcasting company until the allocation of the event. let me give you a point . parenthetically, i would like to say that the sepahtan system may not be just for the fleet or for fuel performance , but it may have other functions that have different purposes and different benefits . each of these benefits can be exploited according to the type of mission. so in the field of fuel, this is a task that must be done. so now that we are talking to each other today, how many of our stations are connected to these systems? the relevant data has not been sent to the national iranian oil distribution company until today. that is, we are based on the shipping documents that based on the

2014 cabinet of ministers' decision, we are still allocating fuel, and that too in a cumulative manner and based on the specific periods of mr. hassan and mr. doctor. now , something around 56 years has passed , and at least in the last year, we have repeatedly discussed these issues in various programs , making this our priority. the managers of the complex have repeatedly planned on this issue in various programs , and various programs have been implemented, but this process is still ongoing. what we are still seeing is that there is no seriousness, that is, at least in this period when we have not seen anything special happen . before we enter into this discussion, sir , what is the real reason for this situation

? if these sipat and sepahtan systems are not implemented, first, how much excess fuel do we have per year, or should we call it smuggling or even bad management? to answer this question, i will put four indicators in front of us, iranians. one is the world performance indicator. the next indicator is the experience we had in 2009 in targeting subsidies . the third indicator is expert opinions. and the last is the agrabah or indicator that can help us. the discussion of the seventh program and setting goals is in this context. well, i was searching the internet. the average consumption of the world's road fleet is about 30 liters per 100 kilometers . yes, estimates show that in iran this number is about 65 liters per 100 kilometers. certainly, part of this is related to the wear and tear of the fleet . part of it may be due to the empty load on the return route of the fleet, but the main part is due to the lack of establishment

of this system and the lack of monitoring. in fact , it is fuel consumption that is not actually spent on the gross national product, and this will ultimately lead to a decrease or increase in energy intensity. that is, we provide energy, fuel, and diesel to our fleet and industry , but not as much as the average produced in the world in our own country. this first indicator, the second indicator, we have an experience in 2009 that we completely controlled consumption by simply implementing a fuel card without setting prices. the consumption that was there in that year went from 75 million liters for gasoline and similarly for gas at the beginning to nearly 90 million liters . the estimates were that if the fuel card had not been implemented and it had not been targeted, today in the gasoline sector alone, about 180 million liters would have been consumed. we used to consume millions of liters, yes. only within two years, with the aim of establishing a fuel card and then with a

price policy, this about 75 million liters per day increased to about 60 million liters, which means it was not only controlled but also reduced, it decreased by 15 percent . so we can consider this number compared to the 65 million liters that are currently in the gasoil sector. something like 3 million or 4 billion dollars here. we can save money. the next issue is the opinions of experts, that is, in the various medicines. different people in the polish distribution company, their managers, their estimates are these. they can reduce consumption by 15 to 20 million liters due to the deployment of these systems, which will be equivalent to 5 to 6 billion dollars per year. 20 million liters, million liters, yes , they can , if they implement it day by day, we can manage our consumption. in fact, in the transportation sector, not for diesel, it is about 65 million liters per day. for gasoline

, there are more than 13 transportation sectors and optimization of the transportation sector. again , i looked at that number. if we consider that gasoline is 30 cents to 50 cents per liter , we can save between 5 to 7 billion dollars per year in the field of consumption optimization. if i were to consider this number as the equivalent of oil production, that is, there is an indicator that is included in table 10 of the seventh plan and claims that in the field of transportation, after 4 years, we want to reduce consumption by 240,000 barrels. if we want to spend this on developing fields

, approximately $6 billion will be needed to invest so that we can add such production to the country's production. meanwhile, here, with a few companies that may not total a few million dollars, establishing these and more political will requires cooperation and synergy. you can actually reduce costs and increase national wealth. mr. doctor , we are now saying that if this system is connected, we will have management . many experts believe that the imbalance can be eliminated. we can even become an exporter and solve many problems. but we have been saying this slogan for years . we have been talking about it in various programs. but this does not happen . what is the main reason in your opinion? we should look at it from the perspective of the ukrainians. the law we pass has three stages. one is the enactment of the law , which is passed in our parliament. the second stage is the enforcement of the law, where the government enforces the law. the

third stage, which is being implemented a lot in foreign countries, is the enforcement of the law . i'll give you an example. in a foreign country , if you run a red light , there is a law that says you have to be fined. you will be fined . but the difference between us and foreigners is that when you are fined abroad , it is deducted from your account after a month . now you have a month to appeal and after it is approved, your fine is enforced without you being asked. ultimately, the driver will be fined. the conclusion is that if i do not comply with the law, i will be fined . it is a matter of law enforcement. now , for years, in the sixth , fifth and seventh plans, we have been obliging the government to do something . we have a good organization and law, but in implementation , we do not have any indicators and supervision. in that area , one of the main duties of the parliament is to supervise the implementation of laws. when we say the law of the sixth plan, 10%. it has reached its goals . the parliament should have fully

supervised the institutions during the implementation of the plan. now, i will discuss in the following what institutions in this area, for example, have their duties been determined after one year. and this is clear, after a year, when that organization has not implemented it, it must be monitored, reprimanded, and then the principle must be examined to see why it has not been implemented . unfortunately, we enact the law , notify it, seek implementation , and then abandon it. we do not follow up on the work. we have a lot of action in the turkish government and in the parliament. yes, when the issue becomes a governance aspect, all the components of governance are effective, mr. yousef . i will go back to the same previous question, now with regard to the goals of sipan. what part of our gas stations are connected to this system? what percentage or number can you give us? right. look, i have one thing to say about the fact that these systems cannot be installed in stations . they must be on the fleet. the system that is installed in the fleet and that

comes to us from the data that is extracted from the sipat and the sepahtan side, which is actually capable of harvesting fuel at the station, and that it has the capability that no data comes to us , meaning that those two are currently not sending us the data related to the gps systems until the person in charge of them. as a rule, you must do this according to the law, a discussion that mr. dr. has just mentioned and i will continue it. in another way, the issue of executive guarantees, maybe even if there is supervision , we have rarely seen in the law that executive guarantees come with strong support and follow this. if the organization and the trustee do not do this, what will happen to them? we have now organized various meetings and programs, you have worked hard to prepare them, and we have come to discuss the issue. part of it is about synergy between organizations. organizations must

make data available to each other based on the tasks assigned to them by the higher-level institutions . this is not happening now, perhaps in the field of suburban or even intra-urban fleets. some fleets are equipped with these systems, why is the data not coming ? where is the problem? or is it a part that our two trustees should send to you? yes, two trustees should definitely review the data and conduct a survey and send the data to us based on that. that is, if it is not the data of friends, in practice, the performance that the cabinet of ministers itself announced that should be safe will not happen . this is a performance that can now be based on documents , for example, a bill of lading or a status report. in my inner-city area, it happens based on inner-city transportation documents. okay, dr. mostafa nakhaei, a member of the parliament's energy commission , is on our mobile phone. dr. nakhaei, hello, good time . yes, in the name of god

, the most gracious, the most merciful. then i would like to say hello and good time to your excellency, the guests of the program and the great nation of iran. dr. i think that in the past month, maybe 30 or 40 days, we have been at your service at least three times regarding this issue of fuel management systems . but dr. i don't know how long we have to continue. the radio and television, which is doing its duty , has put this on its agenda and is following it up. but nothing special is happening , perhaps one of the areas that should be taken seriously without any hesitation is the parliamentary debate. mr. doctor mentioned it. for example , two custodians of data and information that should be sent are not sending them. executive supervision is not visible on these issues . people usually tell their representatives in the parliament and want them

to follow up on this and implement it. we will hear his excellency's response. well, first of all, i would like to thank his excellency the iranian broadcasting corporation for really working on various issues in the energy sector , especially this issue of sepah tand. the iranian broadcasting corporation has really made a very good and serious contribution . i would like to point out that part of the work that is in charge of the parliament, the legislative part , if we want to mention it. well , in my opinion, the islamic consultative assembly has done a good job in this part. it has also set the legal obligation for the sepah tan for online waybills in the seventh schedule law . however, in confirmation of your statement, i think that we should at least follow the issue with more seriousness in the area of ​​supervision. of course, as far as i know, the

article 90 commission has held meetings on this issue , and since it is an issue... it is interdepartmental, meaning it is related to different commissions. naturally, both the civil engineering commission and those of us in the energy commission should have had more careful monitoring in order to reduce fuel smuggling . of course, we have plans to hold meetings in this regard. god willing , we will receive a report from the executive branch in the future . however , i think that in that legislative sector , what kind of track and legal duty did the parliament do well , in terms of optimizing the implementation platform with the market? in fact, it has somehow provided resources from the fuel extraction site

. mr. d. friends can it is better to make this work operational and implemented, mr. dr. nakhaei. it is a legislative discussion that you say that the parliament has fulfilled its duty, but just now many experts , mr. hassanvand, have also pointed out that our laws do not have the necessary guarantee of implementation. that is , we do not have laws that if the responsible body does not fulfill its duties, then the supervisory discussion is in its place. but what if, sir, if a certain body does not fulfill its duty, how many years have passed since the program and all this, nothing special has happened , no matter how much everyone is shouting that, sir, the treasury and national interests are being wasted? mireh does not show any reaction . these laws of yours do not have the necessary enforcement guarantee. what is your opinion, your excellency? mr. doctor. i think that we should consider a criminal offense for each legal clause. this is perhaps not really appropriate for the legislative system. when an act

is assigned to an executive body and an official , supervisory bodies such as the inspection organization of the court of appeals can intervene in terms of omission of the act. the crime is also foreseen in the law. that is, if an act is defined and an official for any reason does not perform that act , that is, he omitted the act to leave. the act of predicting punishment is done in the law and i think that we do not have much legal loophole in this regard to explicitly mention it in the law . maybe it is not very appropriate for us to say this to the doctor . i think boldly, we have already passed these words when billions of liters are being wasted every day, every month, every year. our national treasury is being wasted. this is due to this imbalance and problems and these. i think that the procedure should be corrected and i have a somewhat more serious suggestion, mr. saifi. since

i see that you are following this sepah tan program very well, the iranian radio and television so far, you have invited the parliament, you have invited the traffic police , you have invited the broadcasting company , you have invited the highway authority, you have invited the relevant executive agencies , i think you should invite the supervisory agencies once. i mean, look , the inspection organization, after all, an act is defined like this, why don't they take action to stop it ? the supervisory agency itself should also be held accountable. it's not bad that we, the doctor , followed up and invited them, but the question is why the parliament doesn't come in. i think the parliament came in. look, we've almost been a year since the seventh plan , and naturally, we also understand that it's a big issue. like barnamah barkhod or sepahtan , it may not be an issue that can be implemented in a few months. naturally, there are many problems in our implementation. coordination

between departments, especially here. i also mentioned in that program that there are cases in which coordination between several departments is required in the implementation . we always face challenges . we always have problems in implementing teamwork . unfortunately, our supervision is more in terms of cooperation than in terms of confrontation and punishment. this does not necessarily mean that we hold meetings, we feel the inconsistencies, we give the departments time to create the necessary coordination with each other, and facilitate we will follow the implementation path . now these meetings have been held . now, probably mr. yousef told you. as far as i know, i told you that the commission on article 90 has held meetings. the civil affairs commission has also held meetings. likewise, the section related to fuel smuggling. we in the energy commission must follow up on this, which is a very important issue. you see , we distribute nearly 50% of our oil and gas or diesel fuel in the country in the transportation sector, which means something close to

60 million liters. and these 60 million liters per day of oil and gas distribution in the transportation sector, if the online waybills are operational. well, it can help a lot in saving money, mr. doctor. you said that both the civil and energy commissions are the same, so both the parliament and the government need to have more commissions . but mr. doctor, now our audience , our compatriots, are watching this program , and at least one or two of the irib programs are dedicated to this topic every week . live talk programs in addition to reports. i really don't think it's in a period when irib has come to work so much based on that system of issues, based on documents from above. follow up on these issues seriously , but we are doing everything we can , but we are not seeing any reaction. finally, we do not know what to do. when should he finally get down to business and finally make a move on this story now , because i did not have the opportunity to watch the program

today. mr. the latest statistics that friends gave on the highways and the police, do they give the information to the broadcasting company or not ? unfortunately, mr. doctor , that is the whole point, why is the parliament not calling these friends now? tell them, sir, why are you not fulfilling your legal duty? then, mr. doctor, you say , we have been doing this since 2019. five or six years have passed, and everyone is still following up and nothing is happening. this is questioning our management system as a whole. it is an issue, and basically, those who do it anyway, unfortunately , this incoherence, and i think that there is no will or will in these executive bodies, unfortunately , is part of the problem. i also accept that in our parliament, we need to monitor more, follow up more on this matter, and

god willing, it will definitely be on the agenda. but really, i think the monitoring body should be more, yes, we will definitely try , god willing, at your service, mr. doctor. if you are with us, i would like to ask you a few questions again. mr. hassanvand, i have stated the conditions . nothing is happening. i mean , despite the fact that we have repeatedly followed up with the parliament and the government , i mean, i emphasize again that never in the history of the irib has the irib come to the upper echelons of the system like this, put the country's issues in the middle of things. that is related to the interests of the people , follow up seriously like this. but right now, i am making it clear that some of the institutions , unfortunately, are not following up. no matter how much we follow up , nothing is happening. what should we do? as an expert who must have studied other countries , researched, and seen the process , what do you think we should do so that we can at least follow up? often, they try to use public oversight in the ukrainian system , meaning the performance

of organizations or something like that. the program should be so transparent and clear that even an ordinary person can evaluate the performance of the government, the president, the organization, the ministries. this is not the case now. the seventh program that we have ahead of us is really a precise and coherent program . i will give you an example for this very reason . you can see that it is completely specific. we wanted to let's implement it in article 46 , paragraph a, we announced the fuel consumption optimization organization, excuse the word "optimization management, strategic energy management". it's hard to repeat, i claim that the statute of this organization must be notified within 3 months to 3 organizations that already exist, and a series of activities must be carried out . that is, in june of last year, when the seventh plan was actually notified, the expectation was that the government would notify the statute by september. this work was not done . it took a year and recently this statute was notified, with its own problems

, but it has been merged with it. fuel consumption optimization organizations the energy optimization and efficiency organization and the fuel headquarters have not been implemented, meaning we have continued to parallel these . therefore, i, the expert or ordinary people , understand that the government has left the elephant in this matter, so public supervision can be used. in the next step, and regarding public supervision, mr. doctor, now you tell the people to conduct public supervision . considering past experiences and the current conditions, how practical is this really? in fact, i say that these indicators help both the supervisor and the general public, and i am telling the people that now when you say, sir , 20 million liters, i am right. that thing that has been mentioned a lot now. we have fuel smuggling and anyway , we have waste and all that. well, if it were up to the people to solve the problem today, i really don't think the people would have that ability or that capacity , that platform to say, "let's get to work." otherwise, the people, thank god

, have solved this issue. so, the expectations from the members of parliament who are in contact with the people themselves and the regulatory organizations are that we actually clearly state our expectations . when these expectations are legally binding, it will be easier to follow up. that is, now the members of parliament who he may comment on the most detailed issues of the era on the rostrum of the parliament. now he has some indicators, that is, about the performance of the field of complete optimization . what you mean, mr. doctor, is that everyone should work hard to create a social triage , but now there is a legal basis . now i will also mention the second paragraph of article 46, which practically says that the comprehensive plan for the supply and allocation of energy factors must be announced within 6 years and 6 months. this is again a failure to act and not announced. and again , in better detail, the second part says that the quota for oil and gas credit is only

in the place established on the treacherous path. it will be allocated with an electronic waybill based on the distance and performance approved by the ministry of roads and interior.